Anti-social Behaviour Orders
Lord Greaves asked Her Majesty's Government:
Why there are significant differences in the numbers of anti-social behaviour orders issued in each police force area.
Why there are significant differences in the numbers of anti-social behaviour orders issued in each police force area.
The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal):
My Lords, we acknowledge that there are differences in the numbers of anti-social behaviour orders issued in each criminal justice area coterminous with police force areas. That is because it is up to local agencies to decide on the most appropriate intervention to tackle anti-social behaviour in their area based on their knowledge of what works best locally. The key issue is whether anti-social behaviour is being reduced on the ground, not which measure is used to achieve it. It is not a numbers game.
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer, which was elegant and contained considerable sense. But does she not agree that the numbers are so different that the time has come for a serious investigation and review of ASBOs, which have a very useful role to play in appropriate places and circumstances with appropriate people, in particular in relation to children?
Did the Minister see the widespread publicity last week about a 14 year-old lad in Colne, the town in which I live, who was given an ASBO condition that he could not wear his "hoodie" over his head except when it was raining? Is the Minister aware that this young man had already been arrested six times before the hoodie business for breaching his ASBO? In those circumstances, surely there are better ways in which the local community can be protected and young people and children can be helped through their difficulties.
My Lords, the discrepancy is difficult to evaluate. As noble Lords will know, there are a whole series of different types of orders that may be used as opposed to anti-social behaviour orders. We are looking at those issues. Noble Lords will know that in 2002 we published a research paper, entitled, A Review of Anti-social Behaviour Orders. Now that many more orders have been made, it may be appropriate to carry out further research into the way in which anti-social behaviour orders are being made.
As regards the case of the 14 year-old to which the noble Lord referred, I do not know the particular facts. But it is a matter for the court to determine the most appropriate condition. I, of course, cannot say why the court decided that wearing a hoodie, save in the rain, was not a proper thing for this young man to do.
My Lords, in the review, does the Minister have the spread of ethnic background and gender of the young people who are being given ASBOs? If that information is put together with demographic information, it may tell us whether we are getting a proper response from local police or whether other factors are involved. As the Minister will know, I have never been a friend of ASBOs.
My Lords, I certainly acknowledge the noble Baroness's antipathy to ASBOs, but I have to say that their utility has been demonstrated pretty comprehensively. The research will look at the factors which will enable us better to analyse whether anti-social behaviour orders are being appropriately used and to what extent. The points that the noble Baroness made are interesting. I am sure that those issues will be borne in mind when we consider the ambit of the research.
My Lords, does the Minister agree with the view of my right honourable friend Mr David Davis that ASBOs could become a civil route to a criminal record? I ask that with particular reference to the case mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Greaves. Will she consider alternative punishments for the breach of ASBOs such as reparation orders for parents or taking away a driving licence?
My Lords, regrettably, individuals currently being made subject to anti-social behaviour orders are quite often already known to the police. A large percentage of ASBOs are attached to a sentence imposed on a young offender and for many it is seen as an alternative or a last attempt before such offenders go to prison. How we deal with breaches is a huge issue and noble Lords will know that reprimands, issues of restorative justice and how we can deal with ISOs which support those subject to ASBOs are alternatives we are now looking forward to and are being used.
Lord Faulkner of Worcester:
My Lords, does my noble friend accept that there is very considerable concern about the use of ASBOs directed at women convicted of offences associated with the sex industry? In many cases the issuing of ASBOs to convicted prostitutes stigmatises them and makes it difficult for them to achieve the other aspect of government policy, that of exiting the industry altogether. In Leeds, for example, I understand that only two weeks ago leaflets were being circulated around a housing estate showing a portrait of a particular woman who had been subjected to an ASBO in this way. It has caused enormous difficulties to her, her family and to everyone else concerned.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal:
My Lords, of course I acknowledge the anxiety that has been expressed by the noble Lord in that regard. He will know that the recent consultation paper, Paying the Price, deals with issues relating to women involved in prostitution. I know that anti-social behaviour orders have been made against some prostitutes, particularly in those areas where prostitution has become a real difficulty for local residents. We will continue to look at these issues. However, it is a matter for the courts to decide whether, in any given appropriate case, an anti-social behaviour order is the right response.
Lord Dholakia:
My Lords, is there in place a proper system of monitoring ASBOs to ensure that they are applied consistently? Could not such a system determine whether these orders adversely affect certain groups within our communities? Lastly, there were reports at the weekend about where responsibility for ASBOs rests. Does it still rest with the Home Secretary or has it now moved to the Prime Minister in Downing Street?
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Home Secretary is most certainly still the Home Secretary and enjoys the respect and, indeed, the affection of all those who know him. So far as I am aware, he is firmly in situ. On the adverse effects of ASBOs, noble Lords will know that the legislation is carefully targeted and clear. The rules that have to be applied are also clear, and the guidance we have issued means that we are able to achieve a greater level of consistency. Noble Lords will also know that in due course the Sentencing Guidelines Council will be able to look at these issues. So when looking at the whole panoply of the conditions we have carefully put in place, your Lordships should be reassured that the application of ASBOs is robust, is directed at the appropriate people, and is effective.
© Lords Hansard 5 July 2005